Originally posted by LiveLoveLaff: I am very well aware of what can and does happen. And had it even been ME in that situation, I am hoping I would have the foresight to rely on my own good sense instead of letting road rage get the best of me.
And don't forget...if this went on with her for a mile, then she played a part in it as well. And she too had the opportunity to simply let it go and not get drug into it. Now, not only is she drug into in a negative way, she has drug her kid into it in a negative way.
Furthermore, if she didn't have the gun, she might not have been so intent on keeping it going and would have backed off from him and let him go on his merry way. Sometimes that's the best defense, not to mention the safest for all involved.
True. As I stated March 31 she was approached by a man and all she did was show him her gun and tell him to back off and he did,had he NOT then if she had to shoot him well by all means fire it. Now she just shoots another man. Perhaps because her son was with her this time,but he sure wasn't scared. He got out and kicked the guy from what a witness says. I, in NO shape or form, would have ever got out. Not before and not after unless the police were there, and I sure as heck would not have allowed my kid to get out.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: *~*M*J*~*,
Posts: 1150 | Location: USA | Registered: August 09, 2006
Furthermore, if she didn't have the gun, she might not have been so intent on keeping it going and would have backed off from him and let him go on his merry way. Sometimes that's the best defense, not to mention the safest for all involved.
And we now see the true nature of your debate.
Your solution is that if it weren't for the gun, she'd have been more scared and stopped sooner? What's your reply if the guy also stopped?
I think you're assigning more knowledge to the story than you really have. I admire your willingness to find a peaceful resolution, but in this case you're doing so at someone else's expense. As enraged as the motorcyclist was, there's no way for you to determine that her "backing off" sooner would have de-escalated the situation or just allowed the same situation to happen further up the street.
Being an advocate of people being able to defend themselves, I have to argue that she (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't have to "back down" just to pacify the bullies. Had HE let it go, HE wouldn't have scared someone with a gun, and HE wouldn't be in the hospital.
It works both ways, and in this case HE was being the aggressor.
Ahhhh, but how do YOU know that HE was the ONLY aggressor? How do you know that she wasn't using her big, ole, black SUV in an aggressive manner and he was scared for HIS life...after all, he was on a bike and had far less protection.
No, what I am saying is that if she didn't have a gun, I think she would have left it go like 99.99% of the rest of us do when we are faced in an incident that could become road rage IF WE LET IT. Heck, if I had a gun, I might even be more tempted to push the ticket to win the game simply because I would know that if it got out of hand that I'd have even more protection and I'd shoot the SOB that didn't back off first!
Originally posted by canon_photo: Based solely on what we know so far....
I know some won't agree, but I have to say this guy has no free ticket to bully anyone.
No he shouldn't. I don't believe for one second he is innocent and I've stated if he makes it,he should have some kind of charge on him for provoking a dangerous situation.
Clearly, his goal in harassing her while driving, blocking her exit, getting off his bike and coming towards her was to be intimidating and cause fear. Congrats biker dude, it worked.
Well sure. That's what road rage or rage period is all about. I'm sure she showed her own at some point before the shooting.
Fleeing?? She should have kept running?
In my opinion yes. She should have mashed on the gas and ran his bike over once he got off of it to approach her. I know I would have mangled his bike up without a second thought. I surely wouldn't be thinking oh my gun,let me get that real quick. First instinct is to mash the gas and go,not grab a gun. Last instinct would be to call the police,not get out or let my kid out.
No, she has rights too. Once he's off his motorcycle the nature of self-defense changes. His hands are now free to draw a weapon if he's carrying one and guessing wrong in this setting could be fatal to yourself.
That's why you don't stick around. You get away.
There are two sets of behavior which have to be looked at and determined if they were "reasonable". If everyone agrees his behavior was WAY beyond reasonable (chasing her, cutting her off, blocker her exit, getting off his bike and approaching her car quickly), then it doesn't seem that unreasonable that she might be in fear of her safety.
I don't think she was as scared as she wants or hopes everyone will believe.
As for trash talking the guy once he's shot? If I beat the snot out of some guy who just tried to attack me, I'd probably do a little trash talking too. There's no law against standing up to a bully, and that's exactly the position the motorcyclist put this woman in.
I was 13. My dad's car was hit by someone speeding and on the wrong side of the road. The guy got out and started towards my dad's car,but stopped and turned back around looking at his car. We never got out,because the guy looked mad. Ours was still running even though he had hit us. The first thing my dad did was reach for his gun,because the guy was yelling and pointing,then started towards my dad's side of the car. I said go dad! Stomp on it! I don't know what changed his mind but he mashed on the gas and pulled into the next driveway we seen and called the police. Til this day, I am thankful my dad didn't use his gun. I can't recall everything I was thinking but even at 13 years old I was thinking if my dad shoots him he's going to jail and I was more scared about that than the mad guy. Perhaps it would have been wise to be scared about both but my dad is more important than that guy being mad.
Merely showing the gun, or pointing at him, will only work if there's a fair distance between you an the attacker.
She already admitted she pointed it at another guy and told him to back off that had approached her during their road incident. I would think someone would question why she keeps having run ins with other folks out on the road. Something isn't right with that.
If he's closing ground quickly or right on top of you, NOT pulling the trigger then becomes a situation where your attacker might have the opportunity to wrestle it from you.
He can't out run her SUV. Now if her SUV had quit on her then I wouldn't think twice about saying she should have shot him to protect herself and her son. It would be totally different to me then.
I'm guessing nobody would fault her if she shot him after he dragged her from the car and started kicking her in the head.
Sticking around,that is quite possible to happen to her. However for whatever reason he was able to get her out and attacked her heck yeah she should shoot him,poke his eyes out,whatever it took to save herself.
Fortunately, the laws allow potential victims the ability to not have to wait until that happens. If you choose to do otherwise, that's a decision you may, or may not, be able to live with.
Will be interesting to see how this goes.
Yes it will. I already said I don't think she should have to do jail time. She needs some kind of punishment though,if anything for being a poor parent. That's how I feel about it and I won't change my mind. If she wanted to be stupid and get out fine, she's grown, get out,but you don't let your kid.
Posts: 1150 | Location: USA | Registered: August 09, 2006
Canon, you make good points,Thank you, but how do you know that the guy on the bike was the aggresive one? Was the woman ,who was in a SUV,the aggresive one? How does anyone know? Were there witnesses who followed them the whole way that knew what was going on?If so,then why not call the police then? Is it all her word of mouth? Why did she not call the police on her cell phone when all that started?
My hubby and I ride our bike every chance we get and sometimes you encounter jerks who like to ride as close as they can without actually touching the rear tire of the bike. You cant just allow them to ride your tire and cause an accident, the biker ends up being the looser in that case. So what are you to do ? Maybe that was the case for him, I dont know. But I do agree that he was in the wrong for approaching her. He should have just pulled in some where and let her around. And she was in the wrong also in continuning to follow him,if she felt threatened at all by him.Common sense,if you feel threatened at all get away from it ,if possible.
Joshua 24:15,,,but as for me and my house,we will serve the Lord.
Posts: 485 | Location: God`s Green Earth | Registered: March 27, 2003
I can't believe what I'm hearing, this lady had no criminal record, she volunteered the information you're trying to use against her. The police never wrote a report on the incident of the first road rage. Seems to me she had nothing to hide, ask Mosier why he refuses to give his statement.
Furthermore you all have constantly mentioned this woman's past yet you want to expunge Mosier's murder charge. What's up with that?? If you're going in the past pull it all up and not just hers.
Great debate cannon_photo, I'm not good with debating with folks on Wave. I can't wait to see how this play out in court. The CCWP will become a liability to all that carry concealed weapons if this lady is incarcerated for protecting herself from what she perceived as a threat. This will cause other CCWP carriers to pause or hesitate which could cost them their life. Why? Because they were more afraid of what would happen after they pulled the trigger.
Don't start nothing it won't be nothing.
Posts: 86 | Location: Louisville, KY | Registered: June 23, 2008
