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quote: Originally posted by LiveLoveLaff:
As for simply pointing the gun at him...no one is suggesting she wait until he dragged her out of the car. But it didn't appear that she took any preventative measures before she simply shot either. 1) Rolled up the windows; 2) locked her car doors 3) pointed the gun and gave him the opportunity to back off. Trust me...she didn't show him that gun AS HE APPROACHED or he would have backed off.
She doesn't have to roll up the windows (not that they roll up all that fast). She doesn't have to lock the doors (would do no good if once he got to the window he pulled a gun from his belt and shot thru the window). This guy took the offensive and you seem to fault her for not finding a peaceful resolution to a perceived attack being perpetrated by him. If he's coming at her fast, and he's only right in front of her car, there's no time to wait for him to see the error of his ways. From the front of a car, I'd say someone could make it to your window in under two seconds once they're off the motorcycle. Breaking down the reaction time, those precious few seconds will be devoted to retrieving the gun, analyzing the situation, weighing the consequences of both pulling the trigger and the consequences NOT pulling the trigger, and the value you place on the safety of your child next to you. The time for peaceful resolutions ended when he started acting like some Hell's Angel seeking revenge. As for relying on the guy backing off once you show him the gun? I think you underestimate the potential for some of these people on the streets, and you never know who you just crossed paths with. Before clicking on this link, the comments people left have some potty words that might be offensive to some (as is the case with most of youtube). The lesson it teaches tho in watching the video should be an eye opener for everyone when it comes to dealing with someone who is attacking you. The reality is that you never know what this person is capable of, and if you hesitate you do so at your own peril. You might have to click the Confirm Age, it's a dashcam video from a police cruiser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NIjLask_qc |
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| Posts: 302 | Location: St Matthews | Registered: December 24, 2007 | |
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I am very well aware of what can and does happen. And had it even been ME in that situation, I am hoping I would have the foresight to rely on my own good sense instead of letting road rage get the best of me.
And don't forget...if this went on with her for a mile, then she played a part in it as well. And she too had the opportunity to simply let it go and not get drug into it. Now, not only is she drug into in a negative way, she has drug her kid into it in a negative way.
Furthermore, if she didn't have the gun, she might not have been so intent on keeping it going and would have backed off from him and let him go on his merry way. Sometimes that's the best defense, not to mention the safest for all involved.
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quote: Originally posted by LiveLoveLaff:
Furthermore, if she didn't have the gun, she might not have been so intent on keeping it going and would have backed off from him and let him go on his merry way. Sometimes that's the best defense, not to mention the safest for all involved.
And we now see the true nature of your debate.  Your solution is that if it weren't for the gun, she'd have been more scared and stopped sooner? What's your reply if the guy also stopped? I think you're assigning more knowledge to the story than you really have. I admire your willingness to find a peaceful resolution, but in this case you're doing so at someone else's expense. As enraged as the motorcyclist was, there's no way for you to determine that her "backing off" sooner would have de-escalated the situation or just allowed the same situation to happen further up the street. Being an advocate of people being able to defend themselves, I have to argue that she (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't have to "back down" just to pacify the bullies. Had HE let it go, HE wouldn't have scared someone with a gun, and HE wouldn't be in the hospital. It works both ways, and in this case HE was being the aggressor. |
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| Posts: 302 | Location: St Matthews | Registered: December 24, 2007 | |
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quote: Originally posted by canon_photo: quote: Originally posted by ZOO:
Interesting summary, Canon.... I can see your points, but must also confess to being a bit tainted by the woman's recent past in dealing with road rage. But you present things quite clearly.
Thanks.  Maybe I'm biased in this too tho. I've been taking self-defense courses for the last 2 years, brutal stuff too (had my arm broke while blocking a round kick). A couple of the instructors are police, and we hear stories about how dangerous it is to allow your attacker to get that close to you etc. Scary stuff. You have no idea what the motives are, if drugs are affecting their decision making, or what they're capable of doing based on their history. In the context of what transpired, I think it's safe to say he wasn't wanting to ask for directions. I can't help but point out, neither of their pasts affect how I see this being played out. Had it been my wife, (or mother for that matter) in the car and being put in that position, I feel they would have been justified in feeling threatened. The same benefit of doubt has to be extended to the woman in this case imo whether she's a hothead or not. HIS actions were the catalyst which forced the perception that self-defense was needed... the driver of the SUV could have been anyone. I'll be the first to change my opinion should something come out which shows this guy had some legal right to go around intimidating people like he did... but I just don't think that will happen.
She wasn't too scared. She left her windows down,door unlocked and got out after she shot him as well as letting her teen son out. That doesn't come acrossed to me as someone who is scared for their life. I just don't see it as you do. I also don't see why her first impulse would be to get her gun when she could have mashed on the gas and go away,taking his bike with her if need be,but she knew it was there so she used it. Just as I know my truck is still running and I would have drove into his bike and taken it with me a few blocks down the road while calling 911. |
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| Posts: 1208 | Location: USA | Registered: August 09, 2006 | |
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Forum Regular
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quote: Originally posted by canon_photo: quote: Originally posted by LiveLoveLaff:
As for simply pointing the gun at him...no one is suggesting she wait until he dragged her out of the car. But it didn't appear that she took any preventative measures before she simply shot either. 1) Rolled up the windows; 2) locked her car doors 3) pointed the gun and gave him the opportunity to back off. Trust me...she didn't show him that gun AS HE APPROACHED or he would have backed off.
She doesn't have to roll up the windows (not that they roll up all that fast). She doesn't have to lock the doors (would do no good if once he got to the window he pulled a gun from his belt and shot thru the window). This guy took the offensive and you seem to fault her for not finding a peaceful resolution to a perceived attack being perpetrated by him. If he's coming at her fast, and he's only right in front of her car, there's no time to wait for him to see the error of his ways. From the front of a car, I'd say someone could make it to your window in under two seconds once they're off the motorcycle. Breaking down the reaction time, those precious few seconds will be devoted to retrieving the gun, analyzing the situation, weighing the consequences of both pulling the trigger and the consequences NOT pulling the trigger, and the value you place on the safety of your child next to you. The time for peaceful resolutions ended when he started acting like some Hell's Angel seeking revenge. As for relying on the guy backing off once you show him the gun? I think you underestimate the potential for some of these people on the streets, and you never know who you just crossed paths with. Before clicking on this link, the comments people left have some potty words that might be offensive to some (as is the case with most of youtube). The lesson it teaches tho in watching the video should be an eye opener for everyone when it comes to dealing with someone who is attacking you. The reality is that you never know what this person is capable of, and if you hesitate you do so at your own peril. You might have to click the Confirm Age, it's a dashcam video from a police cruiser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NIjLask_qc
I don't believe a persons first impulse should be grab a gun. |
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| Posts: 1208 | Location: USA | Registered: August 09, 2006 | |
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